Frustrated by the lack of skilled tradespeople? Demi Knight Clark joins Taylor today to share strategies to attract the next generation to welding and manufacturing offering fresh and frank perspectives that will give you actionable recruiting strategies.
Discover how to bridge the gap between outdated perceptions and the exciting possibilities of a trades career! Demi Knight Clark, shares her insights into attracting diverse talent pools and creating a modern, appealing image for the industry. Learn how to tap into untapped demographics, challenge conventional recruiting methods, and build a pipeline that ensures a thriving future for the trades. Her experience growing up with a ‘Rosie the Riveter’ as a grandmother, mixed with her technology background give her a unique perspective on the industry.
Topics:
- Recruiting the next generation of welders
- Making blue-collar careers more attractive
- Creating inclusive work environments in construction
- How to engage and retain young workers
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Episode transcript:
Taylor White: Welcome back everybody to the CONEXPO/CON-AGG Podcast. I am your host as always, Taylor White. With me here today, I have somebody who's going to take welding to the moon, she just said. I have Demi Knight here with me today. Demi, thanks for being on.
Demi Knight Clark: Thank you. Happy to be here.
Taylor White: First of all, I mean there's a lot to unravel in the conversation today, but I definitely noticed that you had a bit of a TED Talk, which was really intriguing and really sparked my interest as well. But I think maybe if you could summarize, you know, if somebody was like, hey, why were you on the CONEXPO/CON-AGG Podcast? I would love for like that quick breakdown for the listeners at home.
Demi Knight Clark: Well, the quick, let me try. Probably because it was on my vision board about two years ago when somebody was like, “Where do you need to go next?” And I was like, at some point I got to be a CONEXPO/CON-AGG.” So I'll take the podcast. It's a great place to be because Fabtech was number one, you know, when I really got into the welding space. But I'm just somebody who's, I'm always in the blue ocean and really into manufacturing and my hallmark of being in the trades for 20 plus years in different roles where I am now with really trying to get welding and STEM and having kids feel like they're varsity welders. We call it the varsity welding club because they're like the A squad and they need to feel like that is your audience at CONEXPO/CON-AGG needs to hear from these 12 to 15 year olds and then the ones that are really trying to join up and say we’re career transitioners, how do I get into this space and what's cool like putting welding on the moon, you know, at some point with Blue Origin and SpaceX and NASA and everyone else. That is a potential for these Gen Zers, as my daughters would say. But then also for these manufacturers who are attempting, what do you need to do to have a recruiting pipeline that's real? Let's stop talking about saying, “Oh, we need more trades.” Okay, how are you going to get it? Like let's go to the next stage of saying like, are you talking to 12 to 16 year olds that are pre-guidance counselors? Because if you're not, you need a strategy and then also to your career transitioners to get the butts and seats that you're looking for now.
Taylor White: It's interesting because a lot of people talk about we need to get people in the trades, we need to get people interested in trades. But no one actually comes up. I'm not saying no one. The majority of people that say that don't come up with actual resolutions for it or hey, how are we actually going to drive people to the trades? But before that I actually would like to know, you know, you said you had 20 years and roles in the trades. Do you want to speak a bit to that and maybe a bit about your background?
Demi Knight Clark: Yeah, 100%. I was a granddaughter of one of the first female Rosies. So back growing up, I did not realize what I had in terms of a resource. I had an Army Ranger dad halfway through me in the workshop with my older brother doing pioneer derby cars and I was doddering using power tools at age 8 to 10 and then also having a grandmother who was one of the first female marines in World War II. And then also a Rosie who we think was trained, we're pretty sure with the Lincoln Electric crew that she was trained in Cherry Point, North Carolina by Lincoln Electric way back in the day that I had these resources of saying do whatever you want to do. You know there's no gender to this, right? There's no like pink and blue. I was title nine, so I played every sport imaginable. And so I was actually talked out of loving industrial technology in high school. It was like no, no, no, no, you need to go to college. And so I reluctantly said, “Well, everybody can tell me I'm a good writer, I guess I should do that.” And then I went into the tech industry in 1999. I lost my job in the .com boom. And those of us who are alive for that, who remember that whole wave and ironically that's what started the Google trend of programming, right? Of STEM being really a programming based society for kids and engineering in their after school programs. But so I was like where is the most stable job I can get? And it was home building. And so I went into the home building and immediately got in, you know, my bosses were like, “What do you want to do?” And I think this was just the bravado and confidence that I always had in me. And I said, “I want to run the place. I want to operationally run these shops.”
By 2017, it was one of seven out of 7000 in high leadership who were women at DRHorton, the world's largest home builder and jokingly said with my boss and my renew who was a regional president, he was like, “Where do you want to go?” And I said, “I want your job.” I said, “That's the whole shtick, right?” And he was like, “Well, somebody's going to have to die for you to get my job.” Because they just stayed, you know, I mean, that was a great position. And it was either there or corporate after that. And I said, “Okay. It's time to be an alumni. I love this place.” And drank the Kool Aid. And so I jumped out. I went to Yale because I had been in the feat, you know, and all these feats that women were not represented for so many, many years that I was raising my kids. I couldn't go back to school, get an MBA and do all the things. So I picked the pinnacle. I was like, “I'm going to Yale. I'm doing the thing.” And when I was there, I was around all of these guys who were amazing CEOs and just huge breadwinners who said, “So what now? What?” Consistently. Like, “You want to be in the bleeding edge of these spaces. But then also, you keep talking about this nonprofit She Built This City that you want to start, so go do it. So what now? Stop talking about it.” And it was great to be in an ecosystem where people just constantly were like, let's just go break stuff. You know, let's go do the thing. And so that's when I started She Built This City.
When I got out in 2019, I did my TED talk. And then I kept being a foot in the world, and I said, “I'm going to start welding.” So I was consulting and I was doing workforce development projects, and I did my research in welding for a year and a half saying, like, what are the two problems? What are the challenges that are facing these companies? I put more of the business case to it, and then I also put my own road to it of I need to get the fastest point to proficiency. And I was a really good TIG welder, but I was like, I need to know the stick. I need to know MIG. I need to know flux core to be dangerous. I'm not necessarily going into a full job for this for the next 20 years, but I need to know enough to be a subject matter expert, but then also what's the problems that I can help solve with these industry manufacturers. And so I saw so many things that just didn't fit well with me. One, you can call it gender diversity, but really, at the end of the day, it was recruiting diversity. We were going to the same places to get the same people for the same result, but still saying, like, “Oh, the trades are dying,” or “We're aging out.” You know, I've got guys that are retiring in 10 years. What am I going to do? You're going to get proactive about it. So I put it into two silos, those butts and feet. What do you need for the workforce now? And then also for this future tense of how do we make this stuff sexy again? Because he used to have technology in the words those two silos and buckets of talking where welding is going to go with NASA and getting those 12, 16 year olds excited and then also getting Gen Zs to understand that the career trajectory in manufacturing is sick. You do not have to go back to school like I did to get into management or to get into robotics or automation or the future tense of this industry. And no other industry can say that right now. I can honestly tell you that.
Taylor White: Well, first of all, holy, congrats. You've accomplished and done a lot. That is amazing. And I should say you are doing a lot as well too. What is She Built This City? Can you talk about that?
Demi Knight Clark: Yeah, so I have rolled off that board. But when I started in 2019, it was an onboard ramp for a combination of girls to get power tools in hand. I mean honestly, like again, we can talk about this gender agnostic at this point, kids did not grow up with power tools in most areas unless they come from an agro centric school district or part of their country. For us that's a lot of the Midwest to the west, that's not a lot of the urban areas, you know, and I think that just is most of North America. So if you haven't had a power tool in your hand, you're not going to be curious about it. So it's very see it be it, you know, if you do want to make it about gender. But then if you want to say it's more just kids out of Gen Z and really, you know, Gen Alpha behind them or Beta whatever we were calling them, they have this power of technology on phones that they have. And so I don't hold that against them. We have to marry that with hand skills. And so that's why I started the video to say, “Okay. Let's get the confidence with girls and power tools. But then also let's marry that with what are the future 10 skills that they're going to want to learn in 3D printing.” And back then it really was 3D printing and I wasn't doing welding at the time. Now, it is really transformed with the current staff that's there just amazing people doing the work of saying actual butts in the electrical HVAC programming that gets trade work and trade apprenticeships happening really in the Carolinas. So I have since kind of moved on into saying like, “Let's take welding in a bigger ecosystem and really tackle a thing that's a little bit scarier to boards who, you know, insurance is always real.” Right? Especially if you want to weld with some yield.
Taylor White: 100%. Now, is it focusing on getting women into the trades and women into welding so much or is it kind of like let's focus on Gen Z and getting them in?
Demi Knight Clark: I think it's a combination. For me it's a combination because people ask me all the time like, oh, you're another, you know, advocate for getting more women in the trades. And I'm like, no, I'm an advocate for everybody getting in the trades like if you're really silly not to get in the trades. But as being a woman who has always been either the only one in the room growing up or, or one of the few, I'm tired of talking about it from that regard and I just want to say like, how do I speak honestly to a generation? You know, I can talk to 48 year old women and we get it, you know, like, it's like, hey, we were usually the only one in the room at manufacturing. I mean the statistics are all there, it's just a statement of fact. But talking to Gen Z and like my daughters who are 18 and 20, they grew up in a very fluid environment. My daughter's 20 and she's in architecture and in her engineering and architecture classes are 50,-50 in a lot of cases. And I know that's a college reference that's not always in the trade today, but I've been around the country to a lot of welding schools and it makes my heart happy to see more and more girls in there. And when I do see the 50-50 classes, it just changes the world to me because you walk into those classrooms where it's 50-50 and I walked in that classroom for a woman at work campaign a couple of years ago with Dovetail and a couple of manufacturers and it went viral. And I was expecting to see one or two, you know, kind of the typical and those are the girls that usually have to feel like they're cleaner, faster, stronger, better. That's how I grew up. That was my motto. Cleaner, faster, stronger, better. You just got to do it better and it doesn't matter, you're not competing with them. Usually the guys are very supportive of me, but at the same time, I'm going to be better than you. Because it's just the mentality when you're the only one, you're like, I got to do it better. And so I thought that's how I was going to walk in. But it was the coolest thing to walk into this environment. And again, it was maybe 15 students. I think seven or eight of them were women. And the most supportive environment I've ever seen in my life. You know, whether it was tech, whether it was business school, whether it was a welding shop. Just to see how they all were supportive of each other. They all were like, “Oh, look at that bead they just ran.” Or, you know, “Look at what she just did with an oxy tour.” It's just both sides, right? And so it just transformed me into thinking, like, I'm not going to diss anyone who's doing female centric classes. You know, if that's a safer space for women to learn, that should be an option. But for me, I want to see as much just overall diversity in the room for these classes, for these manufacturers. It's easy to put women when we start talking in space be like, “Oh, we just want to see more women in this space? Like, yeah, I want to see this as a thriving environment for everybody. And so by nature of that, you just need to expand your recruiting pool. And by other nature of that, if you're going to do anything with the next generation, it better have some sexiness to it, some sustainability to it, and then also speak their language of technology. So you're going to get all the genders if you do that.
Taylor White: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that it is important, like you were saying, you know, you need to look in the right places and make it sexy and make it fun. But, you know, the majority of the people, the majority of the guys, you know, that are applying for these jobs are males. So how do you like– When you say look in the right places from an employer standpoint, we do social media, very heavy. We've got, you know, over 350,000 following us on platforms. And I mean, I probably get 10 to 15 resumes a day. Some of them are local, but a lot of them are like, “Hey, I live in North Carolina or Seattle and I want to come up to Canada and work for you.” And about 95% of that is males. Now, maybe because we oversee our own content, and I'm gearing that content to what I think is really cool and maybe what I think is really cool is more like, yeah, like, you know, kind of like rah, rah. But where should somebody look that's listening to this podcast if they're like, “Hey, I'm recruiting in the wrong place, so where else should I look? How do I make it sexy and recruit more women?”
Demi Knight Clark: Yeah. So great question. I'm glad you're asking it. I get this question more often than not. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was asked for it. I'd be a very rich woman. But at the same time, these are the dialogues we need to be having. I need more men and we need more men like yourself to be saying like, “Okay, no harm, no foul, right? I'm not trying to not hire X. If that's women, that's women. If that's a more diverse population, that's a more diverse population. That's just people that do or don't look like me. I'm trying to hire this. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.” And I think that's the biggest that I see in the state is a lot of CEOs and men that are in leadership saying, like, “I don't want anybody coming after me because I'm like not being an ally or I'm not trying.” We know you're not. We know you're not trying to not hire women. I'll stick with the women. I'll give you the construction example. When I was at DR Horton that we went out on the road and went to construction management programs and tried to really recruit for superintendents and an assistant superintendent pipeline across the country. And many, many builders do. It was a very successful operation. We went to a lot of trade schools and like Penn State, you know, Clemson, ones that had very established construction management programs. And it was 29 out of 30 in a classroom were white males. And so when the topic came up of like, hey, we want to see more women, it's like, well, where are you going? You're going to programs that have 29 out of 30 white males in that program. The one woman is getting fought over. So statistically it's not helping you to be going just to the space. Like, don't go to those spaces. But now let's try and look. What are the other majors? If it has to be college, what are the other majors that women are in and go there? And so I use that as the analogy to welding or really into heavy manufacturing, especially with shop present, you know, that it may not look like the most hospitable environment to every single person, you know, whatever your gender. But especially for women, you know, for them to be exposed to that one, I think the exposure needs to happen. But that's not something you can solve for when you've got a job right in front of you.
The immediate thing that I tell a lot of people right now is women sport, women sport. I don't know if this is really the solution in Canada where you are to your exact situation, but I want to think it is. With the explosion that's happening of awareness in women's sports in the US right now, it's not been about women. We just had NFL, we had the super bowl down here, and it was 50% female fan base. All that I saw was Home Depot get past the trade that was advertised. Where is everybody? Why are y'all not advertising? Because you had 50% women of all ages watching that and saying, “Hey, I'm a fan.” So I'm not saying, like just women's sports, but if you want a pipeline, go where women are right now, and I guarantee you, you will see correlation of women. I did the math and I started looking up stats, women in trade leadership right now, 95% of them play the sport. So they're finding trades, they're finding you. And I guarantee if you went into some welding shops and said, “Hey, were you playing sports in high school or were you playing sports as a middle schooler?” They're probably going to say yes. Or they were outdoorsy, right? So I say a quick and easy tight now in the US, these manufacturers go support women's sports. I don't care if it's the high school level, the NCAA level, if you're trying to get college recruits for management, or if it's, you know, the soccer pitch in your city or whatever pro team is. Because one, it's a disgustingly cheap spend right now versus men's sports. And then two, you have a female audience that has a penchant for doing DIY work, wanting to learn, use their hands, do outdoorsy work and skills because they're sporty. Same thing on social algorithms. Where are they going? You should be targeting over the things, like unpacking things. Girls do better in STEM than boys up until age 17. And then they start making, you know, if they're going to go to college, etc., they're more valedictorian. So why are we not doing more STEM advertising to women? We're sticking with the beauty ads and things of that nature. So I don't want to say think like a girl, but in 2025, think like a girl. There's more of them that are interested in trade than they are interested in what's selling on Amazon.
Taylor White: I mean, well, first of all, it's a huge topic right now, right? You got stuff going down in the States about, like, DEI hiring and all that stuff. And it's a huge thing. So for me, it's just interesting because, if I started catering– And that's why I love talking to people about this because it's like, how do we do it? And like, you were just saying, well, you know, go to sports stuff. But then how do I convince them that, like, hey, this is a good place to work. How do I convince them, like, hey, who here on the team wants to come hang out with a bunch of dudes on the job site tomorrow and take a poop and a porta potty, talking about stuff that you probably don't want to listen to. How do you make that sexy? Because that's the industry.
Demi Knight Clark: You hire who's best for the job. That's my take on anything. I don't care whether you had talked to me at 25 when I was up against men for promotions or, you know, when I was 42 and going and starting my own businesses, I would say the same thing. You hire the best hire. Like, it should be double blind study, you know, And I think a lot of women would say the same. It's just, can we get in the room to even be doing the interview is more of a challenge in a lot of those types of scenarios. When I say, hey, you have to have an equal in the room to start with. But to take on your first question, I'm so glad you asked that. That's kind of the second layer of like, okay, so if you find them, you corral this bunch of women, right? And say, like, “Okay. You're interested in what I've got to say. Now, what do I say?” One, I would say you don't convince them. You probably won't convince them. It's more about saying, like, “Hey, come visit my shop.” And can you just tell me, like, what do you need to see here to want to work here? I would actually start with women in your sphere of influence first and say, “Come on into our shop and just tell us what the vibe is.” What would be more hospitable to you with truly wanting to be that– That’s through allyship and sponsorship. Meaning, like you want to see change because it's going to help your business be more profitable. Again, if you're just going– And I see this a lot and the states have seen this a lot of like, if you're just trying to say like 50-50. I had somebody literally when I started my nonprofit five, six years ago, say like, “What does that do for you?” It was actually a funder to say, like, what does it do for the industry to be 50-50? If that's true, the goal you want 50-50 in the trades, what does that do? And then I have to start thinking about, like, what does that do with diversity of thought? You know, opinions that are outside that come in just like it would for any other industry. What does that do for profitability? Because at the end of the day, if you're a business owner, like, we can talk about this stuff all day. It needs to be, do I have a healthy, robust recruiting pipeline for the health of my business to continue on past me? Whether you're mid-sized, you know, small shop, huge company that's going public or a publicly traded company. And then also, what is the culture like? And is my culture thriving? If those two things are what you're looking at, then that's what I would put the lens on of having women come in and say like, with culture. Because you kind of hinted at it like, this is kind of can get a little bro, for lack of a better term. You know, I've been in those, like, there's one ported on. We don't have, you know, like shower facilities that are separate. If that's something necessity, I would say, should you? You know, that's what women will tell you. Like, here's what makes me want to work here if you truly want me to work here. Is it pay? Is it, you know, a combination of benefits, daycare? And then saying like, what is the management trajectory? All those things.
But it starts with having women around you to give you that feedback rather than saying like, “Hey, I've got the cool job. Right now, a lot of dudes are in it and you should have a cool job for $26 an hour. Whatever the pay rate is, come get it.” It's about building that hospitable environment that honestly, if you do things to help it be a more hospitable environment for women, it will help the men too. And then, you know, kind of parallel to that, I think you also have to say, are we willing to do the work to make this a hospital environment. Meaning, like, what are the guys like? I mean, I'm in those situations all the time where I love guys in welding, I really do. And I love it when you have to be certain spaces in certain areas and certain people to certain things. But at the same time, like, yes, if you fight this, like, nobody's life is going to be easy. So it really has to start with, like, if it's an all male environment right now, can you talk to the guys and say, like, “Hey, listen. This is going to help all of us. What do you think? What if your daughter worked here? What if your wife worked here? Maybe that's not the best point. I don't know if I'd want to work with my husband, but you know what I mean? Like, what if some family members who are female work here? Would you be proud of that? Or like, would you need to act differently or do we kind of need to level up? Right? So I think it's like leveling up. I don't want to take it from the guy who says stupid things on the job site. I mean, everybody says stupid things sometimes. We all just need to level up.
Taylor White: Yeah. I think what you said at the beginning is very important as well too, because there's a lot of companies even around us, like construction companies, when, I don't know, maybe, and it's bad to say this, but four years ago when like women in construction started becoming a really trendy, a popular thing to say to make your business sound good, a lot of people hopped on that wagon, like you said. And we're like, if you actually ask them, like, “Well, why do you want it to be that? Why do you want women? Why are you guys putting that on social media?” Because it sounds good. Like, actually think–
Demi Knight Clark: Or like, oh, clutch the pearls. I'm supposed to do that.
Taylor White: I don't do the Women in Construction Month. You want to know why? Because my project coordinator, she started with us a year and a half ago, two years ago now, and she was a dump truck driver. And we started noticing that her paperwork and her, you know, daily sheets were 10 times better than any other truck driver we've ever seen. And we're like, you're really organized. And she made it so apparent. And this is what I love about employees. And I always tell everybody in large meetings, if you want to excel at your career, make sure you tell management a clear path of like, you know, this is where I would love to go in the future. And she would send me text off to the side and be like, “Hey, I know that we just took on this big job or we got this. If you need help in the office, I don't mind staying after I park my truck and helping you organize this.” She, like, put it out there. So then when an opportunity opened up for a project coordinator, like, we didn't hire outwards, we promoted within. And she went from dump truck driver to project coordinator in the office, which is a wild promotion when you, like, there's so many other layers. But like, I look at that and I think that that's like, she was so qualified for the job and she's been so good. And you know, we joke about it in the office with women in construction and posting about it at the month and it's like, why is it just like one month? I can talk about how awesome Catherine is 12 months of the year.
Demi Knight Clark: And you should. She's the best hire, right? It has nothing to do at the end of the day with gender. Again, I don't want to knock it because I'm going to get bad feedback about this. It's great to still have a showcase and say good things. What I want to see, it's funny to hear myself saying this at 48 and fighting for women's advocacy for so long, but what my biggest place is right now is talking to men and like yourself of saying, like, how can I break down and we have a real conversation on this? And you feel like you need to have actionable talking points or things you can go do, right? That kind of like, helps with the actionable change. I would much rather see men being huge sponsors of women, like what you just said, because I'm telling you, she was me 20 years ago, 10 years ago, even with my best mentor because he taught me three major things. One, dig the ditch. I don't care how dirty the ditch is and what the ditch analogy is to your job. You get in there and do the dirty work and you will always be a necessity of your company, whoever you are, whatever representation you are. Number two, you get in there and you be the got it girl or the got it guy. I got it, I got it, I got it. So after you dig the ditch, you tell everybody, like, I will also take whatever dirty job you have to throw at me. Not only will I get in the ditch at any level of the organization, I'll also be the got it. I got it. I got it. And so I tell my daughters that all the time, like, be the got it girl. And I just did that. I kept rising through the org because people are like, oh, somebody's going to need to do this. Nobody wants to take that position. I'll do it. I'll clean up that department. I'll do that. I'll drive the dump truck. I'll do that. I'll learn welding. Be the guided person. And then the third is be a chicken hawk. So to your point of what you just did, never, ever, ever lose your voice. And especially as women who are like, oh, I got to be 100% qualified. That's what I grew up with was like, I'm not going to go for the job so I'm 100% qualified. If I hadn't had that male sponsor in my life as a really great boss, to be like, I want you like 70% qualified and you're going to go apply for that position. You're not going to always get it. But if you were the got it girl and you were digging the ditch, you're going to be that much farther ahead and you're going to get the next one. And so I always had, it started with my grandmother who was like mock me times a million. And I had that innate confidence. And then it was reinforced by a really great male mentor. And so I say that to the guys all the time. And I hope anyone listening or watching who is a male leader, if you take nothing else from the conversation than that, go do that for a woman and I guarantee you're going to see it 100 times in the business.
Taylor White: Yeah, I love it. I think that that's awesome. Yeah. Like, on paper, she was zero. Like, no qualifications for it, you know. And that's what I love. And my estimator, who's a guy, he was our foreman and he went right from foreman to estimator because the position opened up and I'm like, you're going to be good. I'm very unconventional that way. I don't care, to be honest with you, about what's on paper. I have a really good read on people. I think what we need more of as well, if we're talking about everybody as a whole, is more leaders. We need companies to start teaching more in leadership. I think there's different types of people in this world and you need that. There's A type, B type, C type, you need all those because or else things wouldn't happen. But if you can take somebody who has a hint of an A type personality and teach them a little bit about leadership and they grab onto that– I mean I read you know Jocko Willink. I'm constantly learning about leadership still as I run two businesses and you know have 30 employees across those two businesses. I'm still trying to improve myself and I think that's what we really need to focus on as well too is like A type people if you are even have the slightest bit of being able to tell people what to do or being able to manage people, get some leadership skills into you and do a little bit of learning and get your employer to invest in you and do some leadership courses and your business and yourself, you will be unstoppable.
Demi Knight Clark: I 100% agree. And I can't say that enough to people. Maybe it's my purview because I have 18 and 20 year old daughters so I am like in the heart of parenting Gen Z. They're out of high school now they're adults. My two are like getting thrown into the throes of like you have to advocate for yourself. And I'm realizing how much this generation, even with strong parents like myself and my husband that we were the same way. I'm heavily Gen X, I'm a feral Gen Xer. And so when we came out, if you went to college which didn't have to but I came out of college and it was like many of my friends were in their parents basement and couldn't get a job. That was the job climate at the time, in ‘99 to 2000. Certain majors were hiring like crazy and then everybody else was like, “I can't do anything.” Journalism, it took me like three months. I was living with my mom until I got my first job and everybody was like you guys are the wasted generation. We didn't have any leadership skills either. So I think it's not like we can't blame this on Gen Z. Like they've been staring at a phone and they can't make eye contact. We have to teach every generation that's coming into the workforce like at what point do we get into leadership skills? I'm telling you this generation with the masterclasses and the Udemys and all of these like cool online courses and things, the uptake is so fast they can assimilate on so many different things that as long as you expose them to it like you're saying, but they need to be exposed to it to learn it. We can't just innately expect them to be like they're researching this on their own. But when they hear that when you walk in and you can give them a career trajectory, they light a fire to that. They love a good career trajectory that is expedited. Love it.
Taylor White: Like I said before, Katherine, you know, she told me, like, this is where I want to go. And then you just said, you need to show them. It's true. I love having meetings, explaining to everybody, like, look at Alex, look at Katherine, look at this person, look at that person. You know, they were doing this and then now they're doing this. So, showing that we're not a place that talks about, you know, climbing the ladder and climbing the org chart. We talk about it and we actually do it. So, showing them a clear path is just as important as them vocalizing then after where they want to go. But Gen Z, you know, a lot of people talk bad about them, especially in construction, saying like, oh, they're not good or they're lazy or this or that. And it's like, to me, it just comes down to parenting. I mean, like, there's lazy Gen Xers and baby boomers and there's lazy people on all generations, but it comes down to, like, parenting. And I have two kids and a third on the way. And like, we talked about this a bit on the last podcast, but for me, I think it's just so important as, like, getting down to the root cause as parents so that when they do go into the workforce, you know, they aren't afraid to be the I got it person, because that was me as well. I was raised super old school with my dad. Like, kick you out on the job site. Here's a shovel. It's hot. I don't care. Like, you're working. Take a break. Here's some water. There's shade underneath the tree. You know, just like work, put your hand up. And that's how I always excelled when I worked at other places as well, too. I worked in the pipeline, you know, out in the west. And you have to teach your kids right from the get go about hard work and work ethic, and I think that that's what's being missed because for millennials, you know, parents or whatnot, I think we're missing teaching our kids truly hard work. I think more things are at our fingertips now than another generation, in my opinion.
Demi Knight Clark: Well, and I would say too, so myself and Nate Bowman, world scientists, we have put together a beta one week class. We've done accelerated classes because of my experience of saying, I'm not here to say anything about 24-week or 18-week courses that go through the progression of all four processes of welding, but I needed to go from the fastest point from A to Z to get my subject matter expertise. So I literally pieced it together with people I knew who were the experts and Nate was one of the first people to email me back. So we created a one week class that's now at Goodwill Construction Skills Training Center in Charlotte. And when we were up to do our third cohort and just the learnings we've had in some of our students there that are the same age you're talking about, you know, it's more of the training on behalf of career services that has been getting them to show up every day. And that immediately, as someone who's been in the tech industry, who has been breaking stuff in consultancies, etc. and feeling more of the bleeding edge, it's a red flag to me to say like, “Wait, but let's go back to your culture. What are you expecting 18 and 20 year olds to do?” If it's the same job that a 63-year-old has been doing and you're not open to saying, is there a different way of doing this? Now, I know if you're making widgets and you're welding a thing and you have to do 500 of those things, there may or may not be some open inroads to having an 18-year-old come in and say like “Hey, we should do this differently.” But if you are saying hey, in the next three years, we are going to need to pull on robotic arm welding because it's absolutely silly for 500 people to be done by the same hand every single day and you're exhausted, an 18-year-old is not going to want to do that. They are not going to want to come in and take that old school ‘80s style GM shop job. Who wants that anyway? I don't want that. I always tell this out of shop folks or companies that are saying like, “Oh, they're lazy” or “They quit on us, they just don't show up after the first week.” It's because they didn't see or get told what that trajectory could be. And then also I give everybody the challenge of saying like, “I don't care who that kid is. I'm not saying give them special treatment but because generally generationally, this is how they thrive. Give them a challenge.” It might not be something that you are going to solve in your business this year, but give them something that is bleeding edge in a space that you're kind of curious about. I don't care if it's AI, I don't care if it's laser welding. I don't care if it's research. Give them something that it's like, you know what? Do you want to go kind of like championing this thing for me on the side? They will do it. The best of them will do it. And that's going to keep them engaged. While you might have to take them through an apprenticeship or you might have to take them through the nuts and bolts of them learning the keys to your business, which is not always sexy and fun, but let them do something that is exciting like that. And one, you could actually have them come up with some solutions to something that's a business challenge, that's active. And two, it keeps them engaged to saying like, “Okay, yeah. This is a very traditional business, but there are so many opportunities if I'm allowed to solve for that.” That's all tech has ever done. Google, Amazon, all these cool companies. I've gotten all these cool hires out of this latest generation from 2000 to 2024 until now. All these crazy layoffs is basically doing that saying, like, take on a challenge, break the thing, put it back together and tell me how you did it. So now we're seeing the pendulum flinch back where you're seeing a lot of job losses by AI. And I'm saying, like, now's the time. Why aren't y'all going into manufacturing the same way I did in ‘99 when the .com boom busted? Go to the stable job because your trajectory is going to get you into the tech side, installing and breaking for the same stuff. You're just in a really stable company.
Taylor White: I think a great place to start for all the subjects especially that we talked about today is conversation and talking, number one, for sure. Because even just in the amount of time that we've spoken about today, like, brand starts firing about different ideas and avenues. And I think that what needs to happen more is conversations around these subjects, for sure.
Demi Knight Clark: Yeah. And also being okay with, like, there is no one answer. And sometimes I see a lot of absolute statements that are very black and white in manufacturing and trades. And that's okay. I think there's a mindset to that. It goes back to like blue collar and white collar and like, where do we divide so heavily this generation of gray collars you know, or hoodies or whatever? So it's like, to me, I don't see either side of that. I see the pride factor of where blue collar comes from. Nobody sits around and says, like, proud white collar. You know what I mean? It's just, like, nobody cares. So it's more of saying, like, how do you protect the pride factor of saying, like, there is a blue collar mentality here? Because I think that goes hand in hand with work ethic 9 times out of 10 versus a divisive. But I think it really is, like, how you're selling it to the next generation and then also saying, like, we've got to be okay with gray areas and not saying, like, this is going to be solved by one answer. It's okay to say, like, this is an ongoing project. We're going to do some things right. We're going to do some things wrong. And, like, let's just try to not lose money at the things we do wrong.
Taylor White: Yeah. I mean, you know, I say it time and time again. I'm one of those people where, you know, I will say blue collar is the best industry till the day I die. I think that blue collar is a savage industry. I think it is not for the faint of heart. I'd be lying if I was trying to make it sound like it was peaches and cream and rainbows. I mean, it's minus 40 today, and my guys are out there working. It could be pouring rain, and the guys are like– You have to be a certain type of person to want to go into blue collar work. And, like, there's a point where you were saying, you should make it sexy. And, like, trust me, I love making it look cool because I love– I think what makes it sexy is showing how savage it actually is because it's so rewarding starting a job on the most muddiest terrain when it's pouring rain. And at the end of it, we have this beautiful block retaining wall that has sod up against it. And it's like, wow. We took this from this absolute mess. We went through hell and back on this weather, and now look at this. And I think that that's the biggest thing when I tell people, even laborers that are like, “I want to get into construction.” We're in a job interview, and I'm like, dude, it is not for the faint of heart. And in construction, what we do is actually kind of simple. I mean, there's asphalt guys, it's a hundred degrees out and they're asphalting. You got concrete workers that are banging forms off in minus 40. You got framing. Who's hitting nails at minus 40? They're on roofs. You got roofers. Like, it's a tough industry, and it takes tough people to do this industry. There's no way. There's no talking around it. And I love that about our industry.
Demi Knight Clark: Yeah, clearly, because you're super passionate about it. I think that's awesome. And there's something you said for that, there is a personality type. So what you're saying of going for those people that want to see that tangible result. I mean, tangible. I need to drive by that in 20 years. Because it's the bridge that I built or the retaining wall that you said. I mean, I used to see it in construction where the superintendents were the happiest people in the whole company by far. Unless there was, like, customer service issues or, like, warranty issues on a house. Because, I mean, understandably, they'd be like, “Hey, we need to change a vendor. My life is hell because the customers are coming and complaining.” But, like, overall, I think their job happiness was the best in the company because one, they were out in the field, but then they got to come in for meetings. You know, rainy days usually became the meeting days if they had the good paperwork and put in POS and stuff. But then also, I heard it more often than not. And then in my rotation as a superintendent was you could drive by that no matter what price point of a house, and you showed it to your kids. And so, like, that was dad or mom that was knowing that I built that or I helped build that. And that's not going anywhere. That's there for however many years until that turns over. And so I think there's a huge pride factor in that. And then also, how many industries get to say that, right? That's your calling card.
Taylor White: Well, I always like the billboards that say, you know, like, “Hey, AI. I built this.” I mean, talking about going into an industry that I can't replace is like, doing stuff with your hands and playing pipe, laying brick, stuff like that. Maybe one day with Thomas Robots and that, but we're still a long way away from that. But listen, I appreciate you coming on today and talking with this Demi. I mean, you definitely gave me a lot to think about, and I know that everybody is listening. I mean, I love when we get into these types of conversations because they're at a different pace than what we normally talk about, and I think that's what I love most about them. So thank you for coming on today and talking with me.
Demi Knight Clark: Absolutely. I'm always happy to have a conversation. Anyone who wants to explore the way that we did, find me on LinkedIn, find me on Instagram. And I want to see a thriving industry that is just full of such a robust pipeline of people that we're like, no trade problem here.
Taylor White: Yeah. And I think we'll get there. So thank you, everybody, for listening to the CONEXPO/CON-AGG Podcast. We'll catch you guys on the next one.
