Struggling with employee turnover and work-life balance? Dan and Jenna Moon from Total Excavating and Grading join Taylor today to share their journey of taking over the business and building a thriving company! Together, they reveal practical leadership and restructuring secrets to create a family-first culture.
Learn how to improve your team, skills, and find time for what really matters! Discover the key insights that transformed their company and how you can achieve business success without sacrificing everything else. Building a great business and a great life IS possible!
Topics:
- Balancing marriage, family and business ownership
- Adding emotional intelligence to leadership training
- Teaching work ethic, gratitude and leadership to your kids
- In-house vs. outsourced training
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Episode transcript:
Taylor White: Welcome back, everybody, to the CONEXPO/CON-AGG Podcast. I'm your host, Taylor White. With me here today, I have Dan and Jenna Moon, who are the owners and operators for Total Excavating LLC out of Wisconsin. And we were just chatting about that. Dan and Jenna, thanks for being on today.
Jenna Moon: Yeah, thanks for having us.
Dan Moon: Yeah, thank you.
Taylor White: They have it written here that you are owners and operators. Are you guys, like, out actively in the field or you guys are like when they say owner operators, you mean you’re operating the business?
Dan Moon: Yeah, I primarily keep busy out in the field. I try to visit all of our job sites typically every day, but sometimes it's just not possible. But yeah, and then Jenna's–
Jenna Moon: I am in the office, not typically out in the field. There's like, when we're capturing stuff for social media, if we, like, are doing something to kind of interact with employees, then I'll go out in the field. But definitely none of the, like, equipment work or anything like that.
Taylor White: Nice. So a bit of background for people, I guess, at home. So what kind of construction are you guys into? What are you guys doing primarily?
Dan Moon: We're into heavy dirt moving, and we also do underground utilities, water, sewer, storm. We do both private and public work. We get into the reconstruction of public utilities. We also do, you know, small residential stuff to projects like basements, driveways, and things like that. So a little bit of everything. Just try to go after enough work to keep everyone busy.
Taylor White: Yeah, nice. Yeah, we're kind of the same up here as well. I'm not sure if you're familiar at all with what I personally do outside of the podcast. I have construction business as well, too. It's been a family business for like three generations. But we do the same thing where we're residential and commercial, mainly private. We do some city public stuff as well, too, but yeah, it's a lot of fun. And what's your, I guess, kind of avenue? So what's your most fun thing that you're doing? Because, I mean, you mentioned that you're doing a lot of residential jobs, and for me, those honestly require more management than the bigger commercial projects because there's so much happening on the smaller sites, and you're moving out of there every four or five days. You're there for a week, you're moving to the next site, you're doing something else. What's that kind of dynamic like with you guys?
Dan Moon: I would say one of my favorites is just a private residential subdivision. So take, you know, vacant land and turn it into a subdivision. And, you know, they require a little bit more work just for the fact that we'd be the prime on it. So we'd handle from start to finish for the owner, whether that's putting the blacktop down or moving the dirt seating, you know, when we're completed. So they are definitely fun projects for me anyways.
Taylor White: Yeah, no, that's really cool. So how did this start? So you guys are married,
Jenna Moon: Correct.
Taylor White: Oh, good job. Congrats.
Jenna Moon: Thanks.
Taylor White: So when was it like, hey, I want to do this? Or did she have a business before and then you joined in or vice versa? Or you guys were like one night, hey, you know what? We cool. We got into the most hectic business ever where it requires insane cash flow and we're going to pull our hair out.
Dan Moon: So I've been with Total Excavating, oh, gosh, 28 years. So my stepdad and the previous owner, they started this business real small. A couple dump trucks they started out with and they actually had full time jobs and they would operate them on the weekends and just every minute they could outside of their normal or their jobs they had at the time. And so of course, being a young, young kid and you know, around 12, I guess it was when that started, I was always attracted towards the dump trucks and the diggers and things like that. And just over time, yeah, the company grew and I've kind of been in there the whole time. And to go back to your question, two years ago, Jen and I bought the business and took over running it.
Jenna Moon: Yeah. So the previous owner, his wife, approached Dan and asked if we would be interested potentially in taking over the business. It didn't take a whole lot of hemming and hawing a little bit, but I think it was such a natural fit for Dan to progress into that because like he described, you know, truly was a part of the business since he was a small child. So it just made sense. I think the biggest piece that we had to kind of figure out was whether or not I joined. So I have absolutely zero background in excavating besides the fact that we've been together since I was 16, he was 17, so obviously from a distance, I was part of it. But I had spent my career in social work in a lot of nonprofits and then working as a mental health therapist. So we took a lot of time to figure out if it made sense for me to join what was best for the business, what was best for our marriage.
Taylor White: That's really cool. What was ultimately, I guess, like, the deciding factor for you then, Jenna?
Jenna Moon: I think it really was I knew this was going to be such a big part of his life that it just seemed like it just wouldn't be something that would work very well, I don't want to say for me to not be part of it. I don't want it to sound like I just went because I was like, oh, don't forget about me. But it just seemed like something that would be better for our marriage to do as a team, because obviously you pour a lot of hours into it. It takes a lot of mental energy. So it's just different because we're both there for that. We're doing it together versus separate. But it was tough. I loved my career. I put a lot of work into getting to it. I wasn't looking to change, but I think ultimately we decided it was probably what was best for us as a couple. And then there was also,I think, I'm trying to remember. It feels like a lifetime ago. A gap that we saw at the business that we felt that I could hopefully help fill.
Taylor White: Yeah, that's a very interesting take because, like, I tried that with my wife and just did not work. So it's actually really refreshing to hear that from you guys as well. And I'm sure, you know, maybe not every day is peaches and cream. Maybe it is. Congrats if it is. That's awesome.
Jenna Moon: It's not. No.
Taylor White: But, you know, for me, it was my father, and then I came into it. And my wife has a role in the business. She does our e-commerce and stuff. But that's really an interesting take because you guys are so very heavily involved in the business, especially, like, buying it together. And then, like, you know, just there's so many moving pieces to a business. How do you guys kind of work through? That's what I struggle with. Like, the work life balance. Like, hey, we're at home now and, like, are you bringing up work? Are you cognitive of not bringing up work? Because to me, it's just always on. And if my wife was a part of that, oh, boy.
Dan Moon: Yeah. It's definitely a challenge to try to leave it at the office and not bring it home. I definitely struggle with it, probably more than Jenna, maybe, but because the phone's always ringing no matter where you're at. That's the part I struggle with the most, is not getting back to people or answering the phone, but which is something that I've been working on.
Jenna Moon: To answer your question, I was actually talking to someone. I was just telling a couple stories, and without realizing it, I kind of revealed, like, two nights in a row I gave way that we were talking about work at the dinner table. And it's hard because I'm also a big believer that no matter what your work is, there isn't this pretty perfect line where you leave work at work and you leave home at home. They both go everywhere. But I think where I'm most mindful of it is that we do have kids. And sometimes him and I will get so wrapped up in conversations about work that I realized, like, maybe we're not giving them space to kind of talk and share about their day. But other than that, like, as a couple, I feel like the balance is okay. I think we're learning how to check in with each other. Like, do you have the space to listen to me vent about work right now? Do you want to talk about work right now? I think that's the hardest part. You really have to be mindful of where the other person's head is at.
Taylor White: It's interesting because, like, you were saying, checking in with each other and making sure, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Because, like, for instance, each year, my wife takes on a task of putting on our annual golf fundraiser, where we raise money for the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario. And it's a huge job. I mean, you have over 200 people, 250 people coming for a venue. The golf carts, all the sponsors, the list, the names, the food. This person has allergies. Like, it's a lot. And there's also a lot that we all have to do in house, too. And just yesterday, I mean, we've been so swamped in the office estimating and trying to get work out and stuff. And she, like, text me about it and was like, “Hey, we should start talking about the golf tournament.” And just the simple text message of that made me, like, cringe in my own body. And I didn't respond. And then 15 minutes later, and she was like, “Or I could just get a head start on it. We can talk in a month from now, whenever I'm on.” And it's kind of like the same thing, because you're right. You do have to check in with each other. And although my wife's not, you know, as involved maybe as you are in your business, but you have to make sure that you're both kind of on the same page and understanding that hey, there's a lot going on. So if I add this to his or her plate, it kind of might go the other way. But I really like your guys take on like the work life balance and I have kids of my own too. I got three and a half year old and one and a half year old and then a third on the way. So I'm interested also to ask you guys about, you know, you're saying you're at the dinner table. Like, I know personally I'm very cognitive of how I speak about work. I want my kids to know that I don't have to go to work. I get to go to work. We get to have a family business. We have awesome stuff. We get to go on family trips. And in lieu of that, dad works long hours. And sometimes I talk about work and sometimes I miss out on some events but try to be all around positive about it, not coming home, saying, “Oh, hey. I hate doing Monday,” Don't get me wrong, Mondays sometimes suck. But how do you guys kind of work around that of, you know, when it gets stressful at work and talking about business, I guess, in front of your kids? I'm just interested about that.
Jenna Moon: I think, honestly, and again, as I've kind of reflected and hearing you kind of talk about how you frame it, I think that might be probably an area of growth. We don't necessarily use time at work to kind of talk about frustrations or venting because we're trying to get stuff done. And then when we kind of get home, that might be the space where we're talking about those pieces. So I would say that is probably an area of growth for us. Also, when you started the question, the one thing that we're really big with teaching our kids, they need to be very grateful for all of the employees that decide to show up for us because all of the things that we get that, you know, we're grateful for, like you're saying, the trips, all of those pieces, it's because we have people that are willing to come work for us. So like this last fall we did a employee kind of family event in the park. Nothing major, but, you know, we intentionally made our kids help out with it and tried to teach them. Like, this is how you show gratitude for the fact that these people are willing to put in so many hours for us at work. I know that doesn't exactly directly answer your question, but that is a big piece, a big value that I think we're both trying to instill in our kids.
Taylor White: No, it does, 100%. I love how you answered it. It's very true. And even, like, we're the same. Like, we did a family day as well, and, you know, my kids and my wife showed up, and I want them to be a part of that. I want my kids to be a part of that. On the weekends, I'll bring my daughter here, even though she's only three and a half, but she still has a small little broom, and she helps up cleaning the shop. I think it's more instilling, like, making them see the hard work and not just everything else of the good stuff. And I think that that's what's really important for us also, too. Like, me and my wife, it's like nothing's ever given. You have to work incredibly hard for it. And I think that that's key for– My daughter even the simple things,I’m going out and working out or I'm going to the gym here at the shop, I want my kids to see that. I want to see them with their dad and their mom working hard. I think that that's a really important thing to see, and that's just been on my mind a lot lately. So I'm glad to hear that you guys are kind of very much aligned with that as well, too. And like you said, there always is room for growth in that area as well, too. Don't get me wrong. Tere's times where I'm on the phone with a client, and then all of a sudden, I look, my daughter's been listening to me to drop F bombs for the last five minutes, and I'm like, “Oh, sorry.”
Jenna Moon: Right.
Taylor White: I think that it's just a really interesting conversation. And then do you guys see your kids coming into the business when they're older, or do you talk about that or think about that?
Jenna Moon: Absolutely.
Dan Moon: No, definitely. Our oldest son actually is. He's a laborer on one of our utility crews.
Taylor White: And how old are your kids? Sorry.
Jenna Moon: So our oldest is 22.
Taylor White: Wow.
Jenna Moon: Yes. We had him young, so we were teenage parents. So that's also part of our story.
Taylor White: You guys look amazing.
Jenna Moon: Thanks. So, yeah, so he's 22, and then we have a 15-year-old, 14-year-old, 12-year-old and 10-year-old. So yes, we have five kids.
Taylor White: Unbelievable. See, people look at me, I say, I'm having a third here and they look at me like I'm crazy. That is wild. Good for you guys. I love that. Okay. So your son is 22 and he's a laborer working with you guys?
Dan Moon: Yeah. He graduated high school and he went to UW Superior for a couple semesters, tried that route and he decided that wasn't the path that he wanted to take. Beause he actually, I think, it was between junior and senior year that summer. He worked at Total and got a feel for it, you know. But yeah, he just decided the school role wasn't for him and he decided to become a union laborer on one of our utility crews. And he's been loving it.
Jenna Moon: And it's been fun. You know, I would never put it on the kids, but if they want the opportunity to someday be part owner, take over the business, I don't know what that future looks like for us. So like in the winter months he's been in the office, you know, doing some of our training platform that we use. He's been helping us out a lot with those videos. So trying to get him exposed to all the different aspects the business. Like this sounds lame, but I'll have him file loan papers. Just those ideas of okay, I want you aware of here's what you do with loan papers, like just those pieces. So, you know, in the summer he'll head back out to the field for the labor work. But he's involved in the business.
Taylor White: I was on the same path as well. And I'm sure, you know, even before now, maybe they were probably definitely helping out on site and whatnot. But I think that that's really important and key to also what you're doing is like starting you're a laborer, you know, because being the boss's kid, I know firsthand, it's like you're out on the job site and everyone's like, “Oh, you're the boss's kid.” You know, you can't just climb right to the top. You got to be able to do everything. And I think that's what my dad did properly as well too. And what you guys are doing is I didn't start in the office, I didn't start on a machine. I was laboring and doing all the junk work. And then from there, you know, you kind of progress, progress and progress, which is really neat. So I like that you guys are also kind of like trying that and trying to work around the succession. And I like that. It's definitely a possibility for me. I don't think it was so much. It was like not an option. It was like, this is what you're doing. But obviously loved it since day 1. I mean, what kid doesn't want to run around with some bulldozers and excavators and backers and stuff? But do you guys find it challenging then? I guess with like another question that then comes to my mind is now you have five kids. Because for me I have girl, boy and then we're having a girl. And I guess just like the guy in me thinks like, oh, great, I only got one guy. So I only have to like one guy's going to fight about the machinery and stuff. But it's like girls could also highly want to do exactly what I'm doing as well and run the machinery and do everything. So do you ever think about like, okay, what if all five of them kind of want to go in and do the same thing? Is that a better scenario or is that something that you guys worry about?
Dan Moon: I don't think so. I think that'd be great. I think that we need more women in our industry. I really do. I wouldn't be more thrilled.
Taylor White: More organized, that's for sure. Yes. So when you guys mentioned your son, you said union. So are you guys unionized?
Dan Moon: We are, yep.
Taylor White: How many employees do you guys have?
Dan Moon: Right around 60. Yeah.
Taylor White: Oh, wow. You guys are a fairly decent sized company. Yeah. Wow. Congrats. Holy, that's a lot of people. Was it always union or was that new?
Dan Moon: I mean starting out, obviously, the first.
Taylor White: Oh, yes.
Dan Moon: I want to say 10 years it wasn't. But then, yeah, we've been in the union for oh, gosh, at least 15-ish years or more.
Taylor White: That's really neat. I don't know, maybe the unions down in the states are a little bit different than Canada. But definitely up here people try to keep their businesses away, I guess, from being unionized as long as they can. But it's like it's going to happen sometime once you get to a certain size. So that is interesting. So do you guys have different laborers? Like up here we have labor's union, heavy equipment operator union. It's all different things. Is that the same?
Dan Moon: Yep, pretty much the same. Yeah. So we're part of the operators union for all of our operators and then also part of a laborers union as well. And there's different, I guess, I don't know the right wording for it, but yeah, there's different– You can get into a pipe layers class, you know, labor class and then just a general labor as well.
Taylor White: So you guys have 60 people. So what is it like managing 60 people? That's all I needed was that right there. I get it.
Dan Moon: Don't get me wrong, we have our days. In the last couple years, we've really focused our time on how you structure it. So then you know, we have our superintendents and foremans taking care of the guys or gals below them. So that way, you know, it's makes it easier I guess on us. So yeah, I mean that's kind of been our struggle beause we are at that size where you know, not just one person can manage all the employees.
Taylor White: A lot of HR.
Jenna Moon: I think it's been a big piece of our focus, I would say. Because I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I wasn't there. But I think previously it was kind of. The owner was very hands on, really wanted things to go through him and I imagine that was just a result of him kind of growing the business. It had just been that way. But when we took over it just, it was like, well, this isn't working. You put a policy into place and we're not out there to enforce it. So we really need to get everyone on board for who they're kind of responsible for. So it's still a piece we're working on. I would say we are incredibly lucky with the group of people we have. We knock on wood, don't have high turnover. A lot of them have been there. We're just pulling together lists to celebrate work anniversaries and I mean 5, 10, 15, 25 years. So we're really lucky in that way. So it's not so much like when I say that it's not like, oh, they're problematic and they're the problem. We needed to kind of build the infrastructure to do it correctly and we're still in that process.
Taylor White: I totally relate to what you're saying because we went from– Six years ago, we had three, four employees. Now we're up to like 23 in the summertime. And exactly what you're saying is true. Like we'd be sitting at our weekly roundtables being like, okay, these three crews, their foremans, they got to report to the super, but then the super is taking orders from the coordinator. But then there's the manager, so the manager– And it was just like, okay, we almost had to completely restructure and refigure everything out. And then just when we think we have it all figured out, guess what? We don't, and something else happens. Or we grow and we add more people, and then it's like, okay, that is a job. Someone does need to do just HR. Someone does just need to do safety. Like, it's insane. So I can totally relate to it. So, like, what structure have you found, I guess is kind of working really well? Or what avenue would you like to explore more?
Dan Moon: We were struggling. So each crew– So we have three dirt crews. We got three pipe crews, right? Each crew would have a foreman, and then they would take care of their five to eight people on that crew. And we never really had, like, a project manager specific to a project, so that's when we decided to go with more of a superintendent. So now we have superintendents that get assigned a job or a project. You know, they might have five projects total, but then when that crew comes to the site, then they work with that foreman on that crew. And it's working out a lot better now that way. Because before we had no one really specifically taking care of the project. So, like, the dirt crew would move out, and then the pipe crew would come in. And if we're working for a GC, there were certain things that weren't getting relayed internally in our company, and that was just a frustration on our end and for the GC. So now we have one person designated for that job that kind of line up the crews, you know, have the right equipment on the job site. Do we have the right materials? And it seems to be working a lot better now that we went that way.
Taylor White: So your site super, is, I guess your link to the field and office then?
Dan Moon: It is, yeah. Yep. Definitely. And then our RPMs are pretty much in the office for the most part, at least 80% of the time anyway. So, yeah, they're kind of that link between between office and field, for sure.
Taylor White: So your turnover rate's not super high, which is really good. And that's amazing. Congrats on that. That's not easy. What do you think is the reason for that? You're awesome. Isn't an answer.
Jenna Moon: You know, it's hard. I feel like in some ways, that was part of the culture that we inherited. Like, somehow it was built before. I think a lot of that. And again, I could be wrong. Obviously, I'm biased. I wasn't there. But the couple years before we took over the business officially, Dan was really in there kind of running it. And I personally think and professionally think he has got some really good leadership skills. He's very genuine. He's very authentic. He worked really hard to kind of move away from the traditional I'm gonna show up and yell at you and tell you what to do to, like, more effective. So I would say that is a piece of it. And there's just I think we're lucky enough too, that we're still at that small enough, like family feel that people tend to stick with it. I don't know. You'd know better than I would.
Dan Moon: Yeah, I think definitely people enjoy the smaller company and the family feel. You know, you feel like you're a part of the team and not just a number. And I think that's one of the big ones.
Taylor White: So she mentioned, Dan, that you're not to show up and scream and type. Now, has that always been the way, or has that been something that you worked on over the years?
Dan Moon: Yeah, it's definitely something that I've had to work on over the years, and that's something that I'm not proud of. When I started in the business, obviously, I started as a grunt, which I think that's where everyone should start, so they kind of learn everything about what we do, because there's just so much to learn. But yeah, I started scraping grease off equipment, helping in the shop and everything from that to hauling the equipment to wrenching on the equipment, to running it, installing pipe. I was on pipe crew for, gosh, I don't know, five, six years. So, yeah, I eventually got to running one of our crews. And I don't know, for whatever reason, I just wasn't the best at managing people. And I would get frustrated and basically scream and holler and call people names, and it's something that I definitely not proud of how it went. But, no, I just finally realized that you don't get anywhere talking to people that way. I don't know. Just something clicked in me, and then it's like, well, this is no way to show up to work. And, you know, for one, I've always said, you got to enjoy showing up to work. When you're frustrated and not showing up to work in a good mood, it's time to figure out what's going on or do something different. But no, eventually, yeah, I got to a point where it just wasn't worth that and we just totally switched and it's been working out.
Jenna Moon: Yeah. And I think within that, Dan brought up a good point. I think something that we still are struggling with, but I also think is something that is kind of inherent in this industry is like you get promoted to be this foreman. And like he said he wasn't good at managing people. Well, I mean that's a whole skill set, that's a whole development process. And so we're seeing like again, kind of the result of like when you have these foreman positions just kind of set up as like, well, you're just in charge of making sure this job functions. But it's not the training on the side of the people part. They're frustrated. It's hard. You can't ask someone to supervise people and be responsible for people without getting them the skills and the tools to do so. So we're, we're trying now to make sure and we still have a long ways to go. We did kind of a little round of leadership training last winter, but if we're going to ask you to be responsible for people, then we're responsible to help you do that. And I just think sometimes that's a challenge in this industry. You get moved up without being given what you need to do so.
Taylor White: I always say that it's like sometimes I set people up for failure and it's not fair to them. Like there's been a lot of times this past summer, just with people and even some people that aren't even here anymore and it's like, well, first of all, I am like in the middle of that working on myself of not screaming and hollering and yelling. I used to be terrible at it. Like nobody wanted to work with me at it, including my dad. I was just so very hot headed. Way better now. Kids, I would say definitely was the number one for me. Like my daughter, being born was probably the main thing that really helped me calm down at work and just realizing that like, hey, this isn't going to go anywhere. Screaming and yelling is going to change the outcome of what's happening right now. But it's just interesting because you know, you mentioned the leadership, and you're right. You promote these people and you tell them, okay, great. And then you get mad at them. It's like, God, like, what are you doing? You're not keeping the guys busy. You're not getting to do this. And it's like, oh, wait, it's because I didn't give you the skills to actually– A lot of the times I'll hear the foremans be like, “Well, I don't want to be the one that tells the guys, like, man, you guys didn't grease the machines this morning. Are you kidding me?” So then I got to go to the site and I got to be that guy. Be like, lads, come on, what's going on here? We got to look after the machine. We got to look after the iron. So it looks after you guys. Right? Come on. But a lot of people that you just throw in a form position, that simple conversation might be a big deal. They might be like, I got to go to this site today. And I got to think about telling the guys what to do. Teaching somebody to be a leader is a very difficult thing, especially somebody if they're not an A type personality. Being like, you're now in charge of ruling and telling these people what to do and bossing them around, essentially. And it is difficult. And I think that there needs to be more leadership training so you aren't setting these people up for failure. So what kind of training and leadership courses or anything are you guys looking into or taking the steps forward to give the tools that they need to succeed?
Dan Moon: Yeah. So this time of the year is when we step back and look at what can we do to give these guys more tools in their pocket to learn and grow in their position. So it's definitely, definitely a busy time of the year. But, yeah, last season we just took some bits and pieces from Echelon Front. It just spoke to us, and we thought we could bring that back to our team. So we did a little mini series on it. And for the most part, everyone was pretty receptive to it. And, you know, there were obviously a few people that weren't really sure about it at first, but overall it went pretty well. And I mean, it's right up Jenna's alley, too, for the leadership pieces.
Jenna Moon: Yeah, that's at least nonprofits that I worked in. I mean, that is a big piece of it. I mean, learning leadership. And then, of course, a big part of leadership is emotional intelligence and just being aware of your own self. And so I have gone to countless leadership trainings and those pieces. Read books. I love leadership. So just I've read lots of books about it. So we kind of pulled that together. Like Dan said, some of the Echelon Front stuff, put that using this. And I think a big piece of it, like, for better or for worse, with my background is being a therapist. I do pull that in because it is right. You get to that point that you're yelling because of a whole lot of things, and so you're able to start to identify that in yourself and stop it before it happens. So trying to, in a not super soft, mushy way, help the team develop even those skills within themselves, I think, goes a long way with company culture and leadership.
Taylor White: Yeah. Because they see that you're investing in them, though, right, too. They see that. I mean, the good ones will. And like you said, maybe a couple of guys didn't take– Because we've done and even watched just some of the YouTube videos that are out there from Jocko about leadership and the debriefing after a job and etc,, etc. I've had guys sit down and watch him be like, this is awesome. You know, this is great. Then I've had some guys being like, dude, we're digging holes. We're not going to war. And it's like, okay, I get it. But at the end of the day, too, it's like, well, hey, maybe you're just not that guy or girl that's cut out for this. And that truly is my mindset because I listened to those. I actually just read for the second time Jocko's book, Extreme Ownership. Unbelievable. I mean, when you first start listening to the book, it's like, okay, how can I relate to him talking about these missions in Iraq or Afghanistan? And then you realize it's like, wow, like, this is leadership out on the job site. When these guys fail, I'm failing, and that's on me. So I think that is really cool and really important that you guys are, like, investing in that and your employees will definitely and your culture will grow immensely because of that. Because I think that's where we are failing in the dirt world is like, maybe actually talking to these guys about characteristics, personalities, leadership, mental. You mentioned mental stuff and mental health stuff as well, too. That's all key. I mean, like, you look at the construction industry, we got a lot of issues around that here. A lot like more people in construction die from suicide than actual on the job site safety issues. But we spend more time talking about an excavator dropping a bucket on your head versus how you guys are doing. How are you doing? Here's some tools. You know what I mean? So you guys are definitely on the right track, that's for sure. And I find that super interesting. And is there anything, I guess, kind of like moving forward that you guys are– I mean you're definitely talking about a lot. Like are you guys saying like you want to go into that more further in the future? There's certain courses like you guys are going to continue on with Echelon Front and that sort of stuff.
Jenna Moon: Yes. We definitely want to continue to bring some of this leadership in. I think part of maybe a realization that I had as I was reflecting on the work we did last season and the Extreme Ownership pieces, because that is exactly what we used in the training. We got the workbook and then obviously we had the book, which was great. And I think at the same time we maybe need to go back a little bit to basics. And I don't mean that in a condescending, insulting way, but again, so many of the people who are in the positions of leadership in our company didn't get kind of the basics of like, here is how you address some conflict or here is how you communicate with HR if you're struggling with an employee's performance. And so we've been talking a lot about doing kind of a back to the basics kind of management type thing.
Dan Moon: Yeah, because most foreman's or people that get into these management positions, just going back to what we were talking about earlier, you know, we don't teach them how to use the Microsoft products that we use every day, day to day and what we do. So yeah, just basically go back to the basics, start there and then grow from there.
Taylor White: Now, do you guys try to do something– Will you try to do like some of that inhouse or get somebody or go somewhere to do it? Or for instance for us, like, I realized if I'm not a professional at it, I shouldn't be talking about it or doing it mainly especially in like teaching leadership and talking about it and speaking about it. But what we do like at our camp days, just small little things inhouse. We have kiddos, camp day, we go and we do a bunch of skeet shooting with shotguns and we go in with teammates and we do tug poles, three-legged race. And it's fun because at the same time a lot of people are like, oh, these are fun games. Or then we split up and we do a scavenger hunt and you got to work as a team. But they all, I mean, realize at the end of the day, as we kind of bring this whole day together is like what we all did today was we had a fun day and we're all out here laughing, having fun. But more importantly you guys worked as a team. You got through scenarios, you problem solved together as a team. Generally on the teams, there's always one person that kind of stands out and is like, no, I think we need to go this way and this way. And I'm like, you guys are putting yourselves in the positions and that's really cool. Is that something like you guys are kind of looking at doing it outhouse or some stuff inhouse?
Jenna Moon: I would say for the most part, at least at the level we're at, I'm comfortable with the two of us doing it. I think with Dan's experience in the field for years and years, he's really the one that– When I talk about a concept, a leadership concept, he can really then take it and apply it to the field where I can't do that. I can talk about this leadership concept, but I don't know how to translate that to the guys and gals out in the field. So I think it worked really well for us to kind of cover the Extreme Ownership content together. And I would be comfortable continuing to do that. It's what I love. It's a big piece. I mean, when I decided to leave my career and come to Total, the only way I decided to do it was I have to have a piece of this human side of it, the leadership, employee wellness, the culture. I'm not doing it to run a business as weird as that sounds. I do love that part. We do, but that's not why I left. So it's a piece that I love. So just selfishly, I don't want to outsource it.
Taylor White: Yeah, I think you guys are like the perfect weapon together. Because you need that dynamic in business as well too. And I think that it's funny because growing up, my dad was more so the way I am now. The driver, the, hey, let's go, let's get her done. And I was always on site with the guys and being y'all talk to them guys, don't worry, we'll make sure, you know. And then now it's kind of the back way. Last week we just let go of someone from our team and dad walked around the office, he's like, “Jeez, Tay takes another one down now.” Now, he's like the guy that people go to and be like, “Hey. Taylor came to the site and we were talking about this. Make sure he's not upset about that.” He's the guy that people are coming to and kind of consoling in it, which is I'm not some mean being guy. I'm making it sound like I'm some terror on site. I swear I'm a nice guy. Nobody would work for me if I wasn't. But that dynamic's really important, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And I think that you guys are a really strong dynamic at that. And I really appreciate you guys coming on and talking about that and sharing with people about all the good stuff you have going on over there in Wisconsin.
Jenna Moon: Yeah, absolutely. No, we're glad we were able to.
Taylor White: Thank you guys very much for coming on the podcast.
Dan Moon: Thank you.
Taylor White: Thank you everybody for listening to the CONEXPO/CON–AGG Podcast. Catch you on the next one. Take care.
